Tuesday, September 19, 2006

i spy

"BE OUR GUEST, be our guest,
put our service to the test,
we'll add a little dab of Scripture and let Disney do the rest!"


g13 said...

i thought long and hard about this post. i have a good friend who serves with this community and i don't mean to ridicule the ministry of CCC, but in the end i could not help myself and, i think, i am showing remarkable restraint. so there you go.

josh said...

a couple of things. this was basically my job for 3 years. coming up with videos and creative things like this. honestly, it is creative. quasi-humourous.

but . . .

1) no woman at all made the video? not even one? says a lot.

2) do you realize how much time it takes to do a video like this? it's a lot of hours and i'm not even talking about the video edit. but just getting everyone together and shooting.

3) if you asked them what the purpose of the video was, they would say to either get more people to come or to just get the ones there to laugh and have a good time. both connect back to the idea of providing a "service" for their people. it's this idea of "service" that bothers me the most.

Anonymous said...

...Wow, a church where there are no women at all. Can't wait to go.

I do find it creative and witty, in a sort of abstract way, as long as I don't think too hard about the context.

(Sorry I can't sign in, if you've migrated to the new Blogger you can no longer post comments on non-beta blogs.)

Beth from Until Translucent

g13 said...

josh, i'm with you on the whole idea of centering one's community around, and investing the majority of a community's resources in, a "service." i also think at some point it would be difficult to distinguish growth as an expression of God's ever expanding Kingdom and growth as a means of sustaining one's institution.

beth, the lack of women was the first thing i noted about the video as well. i did have an opportunity to speak with someone from this church community this weekend and they affirmed that they embrace an egalitarian approach to ministry but they find it difficult to find women to fill pastoral roles. the latter difficulty is undoubtedly the result of a church tradition that long barred women from ministry and/or allowed them to function as pastoral ministers but refused to offer such women the honor that they were due.

ahbahsean said...

The end when the guys are all laying on the floor moving their arms/legs in unison reminds me of the credits song/dance number at the end of Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit. Do you think they were going for such a connection?

Anonymous said...

there it is, wrapped up succinctly, everything that is wrong with the basic philosophy of the American Church. Wow, i didn't think anyone could do it!


Anonymous said...

It's Beth again.

Jeff, I understand your point that tho the congregation may hold a position valuing both men and women in ministry, the fact that it currently has no actual people employed who reflect that value may not be entirely under its own control. And I can't dispute that.

But ... I didn't get any visual clue, seeing it once through, that these singers were supposed to be limited to people who were all in official pastoral ministry at the church. That idea never occurred to me. If you had asked me as a random viewer to guess who they were, I might have said "volunteer welcomers" or "people who lead events" or "personable seeming guys who might say hi to me if I came." That's why it seemed so odd to have all males. The spot to me communicated not "we have no women pastors" but "we have no women AT ALL."

In order not to be shocked by the exclusively male images, wouldn't a viewer pretty much have to already be attending, and recognize "oh yeah, these are all our pastors, and there would be women in the spot if we had any on the staff, but they haven't hired one yet, so you can't blame them"?

g13 said...

hey beth, i suppose i should have provided a little contextualization for the clip. from what i've heard, it was created for the congregation as a means of promoting "friend sunday." of course, that fact raises further questions about that ringer of a line "bring a few friends to the weekend service, we'll do all the rest," but i digress. from what i've heard, the church did have a female "campus pastor" at one point, but apparently she is no longer a part of the staff.

speaking of staff...if my good friend that i mentioned ever appears in a video like this, i will harass him mercilessly about it. no one can say he wasn't forewarned: )

Tanya said...

I totally understand it being funny and I wasn't going to comment but I just thought I'd say a couple quick things:) One-they didn't make it for outside marketing, it was shown in service as part of the focus on inviting friends. (I saw it when it was showed live and the congregation thought it was really funny because they knew them)The arts director put it on you tube so he could put it on his site for fun to share. Two-they had a woman campus paster but that site merged with with another and they have a great woman in rotation for teaching. Three-while I agree that sometimes real needs can get lost in gimmicks I know some of these men personally and they have sincere hearts for the people in their congregation.

Anonymous said...

i talked to my friend Nick who works at CCC and realize now the context, as you have discovered (damn you Gentry). So yes, if this was outside of the church and what they were doing to draw people i would stick with my statement but seeing the context I have to sheepishly withdraw my previous statement.


g13 said...

thanks for the context tanya. it was really good to see you last weekend. i agree with you concerning the heart of ccc. a church that will let a hermaphroditic vagrant like my friend serve as an intern has to be ok at some level.

and yeah, d, i knew about the context the whole damn time. that's the only reason i didn't go forward with my initial plan for this post.

b-matt said...

Context does matter ... and I have to say I actually thought it was kind of funny. I took it more as "over-the-top" on purpose, for humor, and partly to say, "look we can make fun of ourselves" ... and in that regard I think it's stinking hilarious, especially being familiar with the congregation and certain un-named staff members :) Sometimes I think it's okay to be cheezy for the sake of being cheezy ... we don't always have to be deep or profound ... even in the congregational setting.

Anonymous said...

Right, as I said above, it does make a big difference when it's purely in house and people will immediately recognize the individuals. I'm sure it was absolutely hilarious to attenders.

Tanya said...

It was good to see you this past weekend too-It had been too long!

Katie said...

i thought this comment string very interesting. i actually work with this church, and i'd never even thought about the "no women" angle that the video might portray to those who aren't familiar with the church. tanya had some great comments that i won't bother to reiterate, and b-matt nailed it on the head when he said they took it over the top on purpose, with a "we can make fun of ourselves" approach. our creative arts guy would probably be your new best friend for saying that it's okay to be cheezy for the sake of being cheezy and that we (the church) don't always have to be deep or proufound...i think he's been trying to convince a lot of people of that fact for quite a while.

i think that the only thing that i would add is that this community does have quite a few women on staff (almost 50% of their staff are women)...even women in the eldership. and though this video doesn't show that level of female involvement at the staff level, it is there.